How to lead belay reddit. I also don't waste time teaching people to belay on an ATC.
How to lead belay reddit There isn't anything on the market that remotely comes close to the ease of use for lead belay. And we knocked heads really hard. ETA2: I wasn’t expecting this much response and people applying!! It’s super convenient to use at bomber bolted belays with a redirect when you’re swinging leads instead of switching from guide mode to direct belay. 8 and 5. Nothing else rescue related - a fixed 70m line will get you to the ground from almost anywhere. It’s been the single most important thing for my mental game. However, habits like these lead to pretty terrible belay technique that increases the chances of fucking up when you’re not using a grigri. I asked the instructor of the class the same question and they gave me a very non answer of "i do not use a grigri so idunknow" Climb with some experienced people. I have been mock lead clmbing/belaying using the grigri and i am enrolled in my gyms lead classes to make sure i have someone watching and correcting any lapse in technique before i actually lead belay. Thanks for weighing in, u I recently took my gym's test. I know it has the assisted brake but damn that sort of belaying makes me uneasy. To get lead certified it's a 2h class for which the only requirement is to be comfortable climbing and belaying top rope. k. It gets you outdoors with friends who can lead, and on cool climbs. I thought this to be very much a standard rule to follow when belaying heavier people. So ask me anything! ETA: I’m pretty sure Belay positions are US based only. You can practice everything except catches. IOW, not a GriGri. So a lot of questions about this technology, and like everybody else, I don’t particularly like auto belay. I jerked it out on instinct, tried to grab the rope with my other hand, couldn't hold it, and he hit the ground from 35 feet or so. 10a make the climber climb to 6th quickdraw take an announced fall then continue climbing and take a suprise fall then finish the route. I think even if you aren't comfortable leading, becoming someone who can lead belay is super valuable. My hand was above the plane of the ATC, and got sucked into the ATC. ) The Jul2 is a great belay device for lead climbing and top rope down climbing. I started off using gloves with a hip belay. See full list on rei. Any input would be appreciated, thanks :) For #1, your stance is very dependent on the (relative) weight of you vs your climber. Lead belaying seems a lot more practical with a gri gri but maybe there's a technique I'm not grasping. This article is mostly targeted towards those folks. Don't listen to any of these gumbies talking about how the grigri is better. Regardless, find a group of 3 who is also trying to learn and practice together, with one person as the backup belay (just holds the brake strand in addition to the main belayer). If you can belay on a Grigri, you can belay on an ATC. If you are, do it. When a climber yells “Clipping,” quickly pull rope Jul 19, 2022 · Consider using a brake-assisted device. b) The leader ties in to the middle of the rope and the second and third climber are tied in to an end each. If you think the lead is going to hit a ledge, you adjust for that. (Don't lead belay trad with a grigri, too much force on pro) 1x Grigri for lead belay, and most of my top belaying. I am going to go for my lead rope certification within the next month hopefully and I was wondering about everyone's opinions on using an ATC or GriGri or any other belay device for lead climbing. Log In / Sign Up; Advertise on Reddit I have overall been very happy with my experience with Belay, placement process, and client I work with. OP wants to make sure he is belaying the best way possible after a year of doing it. Been belaying my partner when he fell on me while I was at a hanging belay. EDIT: The last couple of sentences are kind of dogmatic. When the climber pauses, you pause. It is the belayer, not the belay device, that matters. I know that I'm doing everything right mechanically. Then when the time comes to test out, you'll be a better climber and a strong leader I've seen so many people belaying straight out from the wall, with tons of slack out. Mostly we had to: Tie in correctly - do the figure 8 right Set up the belay device correctly - make sure the GriGri (yeah, yeah) was threaded correctly and the carabiner was locked (my partner kept forgetting the gate) My partner was on the last clip at the gym we go to, and as I was giving out slack for him to clip in, he slipped off. Belaying is more than just standing in one place with your brake hand down and your lead hand up. you want to stand close to the wall and don't sit down/take in slack when the leader falls unless you know what you are doing. My daughter failed an indoor lead belay test—she ran the rope short for her lead climber (not a true short rope; the climber was some teen friend of hers who was not very experienced at lead). The grigri is not the only belay device out there. The Pilot is simple, light, and perfect for what it does. I’ve lead belayed on them before but usually use a tubular device, and I feel like I see a lot of people at my gym lead belaying on a grigri with no regard for the brake strand of rope. 3x Spare Lockers. I think you are over thinking it. My climbing gym only has 24ft top rope/autobelay walls. If you're not interested yet, no rush. 1x Rocky Talky. You're moving, you're calling out, looking around, avoiding rocks on the ground, looking for tangles etc. A lot of gyms offer certifications just in lead belaying if you don't want to lead climb. for a beginner the best way to lead belay is to manage the slack out so there is a small dip in the rope before going up to the first clip. In lead belaying you're paying out rope (giving slack) while in top rope you're always taking in slack. Use what you're comfortable with to lead belay. I can top rope with a braking device, lead belay, and rappel with two strands from a singular device Even if you can lead safely on 5. Ask the staff what is in the lead test. I actually retook the lead class a year later, retook the test immediately the day after the class, and finally passed! Yeah most of my belaying is lead belaying, where tunneling is considered more acceptable because you are able to maintain tension on the rope as you slide. If you think tieing yourself down will be a detriment to your friends mental state, I’ve suggest foregoing roped climbing for awhile and bouldering together Instead of attaching my harness to the rope loop and belaying from the belay loop, I attach my belay device directly to the rope loop. Get app Get the Reddit app Log In Log in to Reddit. I love not screaming. I also think it’s more intuitive to understand the mechanics involved in belaying with a tube style device (although since you’re already familiar with TR lead belaying The person I just mentioned gave me an incredibly hard catch once. Most of my anticipated outdoor projects this year are at least double that length. The first time I failed the lead test was because "I didn't have my hands up to spot the climber to the first clip" The 3rd time I failed was because I was belaying to far from the wall, the 4th time I failed was because I was belaying too close to the wall, the 5th time I failed was because I had my hands up to high spotting the climber to the I waited too long after my lead class to take the test, failed my first lead test, and cried too! 😭 I was too demoralized to retest, I had to wait a whole year before I felt ready again. Absolutely, you should be gauging the fall while your climber is climbing. If their climber fell, the rope would barely pull tight before their climber hit the ground. I've taught people how to toprope belay on the ground, and after a handful of run through done the same. But being able to do a 2 strand rappel in brake assist mode and not have to worry about a 3rd hand is kinda nice. Grigris stop falls, ATC stops falls. No Chalk, No Gloves. Plus I want to dip my toes in some lead climbing this season. I flake the rope, always have my hands on the rope at the right Feb 26, 2017 · Just as you do for a top-rope belay, watch and listen closely to your climber’s progress and commands. I am here to share the good, the bad, and all the in between from my experience. The Mega Jul is best for rappelling, however overall for a singular device to take outside, the Mega Jul is best. I think the tester doubted her age (14) and probably gender. These clamp the rope when there is a sudden pull, such as a lead fall, minimizing the risk of dropping a leader and making it easier for you to hold a leader who is working a route. 6 in a gym while watching me over their shoulder. . And you should be wearing gloves when belaying a leader on a tube device anyways. It was two 3-hour sessions, the first session we only did lead+top-rope belay just to get the moves and feeling down, the second session we actually lead-belayed and had to take some pretty large falls to know how that felt. You start with a demonstration, explanation of all the rules, the whys and the how to (like why we clip the rope the way we do. The limit at lead climbing is suggested to be the half of toproping: So it would be 125% (60kg belaying a 75kg person). If the lead falls and smacks his head, and the belayer only sees that their partner's gone limp after kissing the wall and is hanging from the rope, the belayer is gonna want to tie off the rope before they 1) shriek in horror, 2) rummage through their pack looking for a phone to call for help, and 3) try to get up to their partner to see if I’ve been climbing for 2 years now and I just started outdoor rope climbing (woohoo!). when they clip above their head, don't The smoothest lead belaying of any device I have tried and you never have to defeat it to pay slack like a grigri. If you are worried about your lead pulling out your anchor in a hanging belay, you either need to build a more solid anchor or stop letting out so much slack. No Cord. They will even stop people if they see them belay someone heavier without using this technique. It was only by climbing with kinder people did I regain it. It’s strange that your gym doesn’t allow mock belays, most gyms do. 11+ confidently in a gym setting. Lead climbing is simple, it's the belaying that actually is the dangerous/tough part. I fell 30 feet at night on the NIAD, scaring my partner worse than me because he couldn't see anything. Top rope is where a GriGri really stands out. Throughout the climb, the belayer’s goal should be to give the climber enough rope for efficient movement and clipping, and, when catching falls, reducing the climber’s risk of impacting the ground, wall features, or other people. At my biggest I was 215 and have had people weighing as little as 110 lead belay (and catch) me. ), then learn how to give slack with a climber on top-rope who is down-climbing, then climber The Ohm is only useful for lead climbing, and I don’t imagine you’ll be doing that right away. Headlamp lives on my helmet. I started climbing in the 70s with a hip belay, caught falls that way. Mock lead belay with someone watching you to help teach you and have your climber on a top rope belay. If he’s unwilling to be patient while you learn, I’d search for other climbing partners. Even with the Ohm I’d be hesitant to lead belay someone that much heavier than you. So being safe leading in a gym does require a baseline of climbing ability. Getting belay certified requires taking a one page written test, doing a practical demonstration of competence, then coming back 24 hours later to do the practical again. Maybe my post should have been that gyms should enforce grigri use when belaying, or at the very least not allow everyone and their mother to pass the lead certification test without knowing how to use both. When all three are assembled at the stand either the third climber swaps lead or first climber resumes leading. When I teach people how to lead and notice a huge difference in weights I train them to catch a simulated fall while on top rope. Should I just borrow his grigri when he's climbing, and not bother trying to get good at lead belaying with an ATC? I have a lot of experience TR belaying with an ATC and a fair amount with a Grigri. Knowing how far I can reasonably expect to fall with my different partners at varying heights helps me have better risk management that is evidence based rather than fear based. Anyhow, not sure where you'll be traveling but in North America each gym does their own certification process for TR belaying and lead belay/lead climbing. A mobile anchor should be positioned slightly behind the belayer, on the same side as the brake hand. The physicality is identical (for top rope belaying. 10 + lead routes. As a background, while belaying a lead climber, indoor I usually prefer a grigri if the climber is working a route and expects to be hangdogging, or if they are trying to flash at their limit, but generally use an atc if they are aiming for an easy flash or a redpoint on a previous worked route (I've once short-roped a partner while he tried a So my college has a small climbing wall tucked into a corner of it's gym. When the second climber reaches the belay he ties straight in while the lead takes the third climber on belay. 1x Metolius Alpine PAS, with locker. Then ask the gym if they'll let you use a lead rope to do mock leads for practice (climb on an auto-belay or top-rope, but take a lead rope with you and clip as you go). 9, no one's going to certify you to lead in their gym if they have mostly 5. Just reverse what you do on a normal belay. After exceeding this 150%, you should consider an extra anchor point. Better for lead belay. My usual preference for building an anchor on trad routes is the standard three piece system using a cordalette. 2) Toprope belaying is doable up to 150% of your own weight. I've tried belay glasses a few times and I was impressed by how easy it was to keep the climber in my view when tilting my head up and down. Inattention is more dangerous than improper belay technique, for example the belay is chatting up a cute girl while the climber is running out a bunch of slack. Expand user menu Open settings menu. The giga jul does everything pretty well but nothing amazingly. I was also told to use this technique in my first outdoor lead course (this or anchoring the belayer to the "ground"). Of course it is inferior to having a partner. Belaying, a. I’ve had to basically reteach people how to belay properly that learned on a grigri without developing best practices (for any belay device) like always keeping your hand on the break strand. It feels natural for top rope belay as well, so I just choose to keep my methods consistent. It’s so easily done, belay/lead tests are not the same as normal conditions and mentally quite weird and taxing, I once failed a belay test at a new wall after years of climbing because I put my harness on upside down and forgot to close my screw gate! Posted by u/vlad_biden - 38 votes and 25 comments The Grigri is a more versatile device. com Nov 12, 2020 · When I started lead belay this year, the first comments I got were promising. Belayer with top rope) lead climbing and belaying and multiple falls from different hights for 75€ (students) / 100 € everyone else It is mandatory to know how to belay dynamic with your body and that you learned to fall from above the last clip See if somebody can go over the basics of lead with you and show you how to clip safely. Seriously, a significant rope burn can lead to skin grafting and loss of an entire climbing season. They don't transfer from gym to gym or anything, so if you're traveling you have to put up with a lot of tests over here. The ATC-Pilot is hands-down the best belay device I've ever used. Read all directions for using each type of belay device! Stand in a braced position next to the cliff. If I was going to lead-belay someone tomorrow, first of all I wouldn’t because I also haven’t lead-belayed anyone in almost 10 years, but also I would use a device that I’m familiar with and know the correct technique for. But as somebody who works on the road it would be amazing to be able to lead climb while I’m on the road and not just have to Boulder or use regular auto belays. That's true, and I'm not the paragon of safety, admittedly. Same as a grigri for toprope belaying and belaying from above. Top rope, lead, multi pitch, rope ascension, single-line raps; the device does a lot. So I learned on an ATC, and bought an ATC XP which has a little extra friction on the front lip. I would advocate for learning on the Jul2 - if you can lead belay using a Jul2, you should be able to lead belay using any tubular style device, should the need ever arise. Again you can practice everything except falls. He used a belaying device that blocks sort of automatically (like a Mammut Smart). I had a really impatient and low empathy partner when I was learning to lead belay (toxic ex) and it destroyed my confidence and gave me lots of anxiety. I also don't waste time teaching people to belay on an ATC. It's my opinion. Plenty of people lead belay sport with a grigri, but not because it's safer, it's because your brake hand gets tired. No danger to the climber, who simply pulled up too much rope for the clip. So if you weigh 60kg, you are able to belay a 90kg person @ a toprope. I work at a gym and we do our test on a 5. For top rope down climbing, you have to pull the rope up with your top hand and push the slack in with the bottom hand. belaying is the harder thing to do well. It’ll be my main focus/goal for this outdoor season. There are alternatives that work perfectly fine for way cheaper than the grigri. Honestly, I think any lead certification should be with the use of a grigri on the test, not just an ATC. I love using some sort of ATC for lead belay personally. Worse than a grigri as a progress capture for ascending a fixed line or as a grillion. Yeah I do periodic “fall days” in the gym with my belay buddies. It's the most insane belay process I've been a part of. I applied the same diligence to everything, but where top rope belay is pretty much just mechanical, lead belay has way more skills that come into it. He didn’t have the belaying skills to compensate for that blocking feature of his belaying device. I've done a little bit of easy outdoor leading & lead belaying with friends outdoors, and took a lead class at a local gym (not the one I usually climb at - this other gym is a lot further from me but offers a more inexpensive lead class than my gym). neither is safer, they're just good at different things. I learned to lead belay when someone handed me a rope, said "you know what you're doing", and setoff up a 5. Only to quickly give out slack, to lead belay normally as the climber ascends and it not preparing to clip. Mock lead and ask your top rope belayer to leave a little slack to get you mentally off hanging on a top rope. I know they're not malicious, just have not seen a compelling case to belay otherwise. Sorry about that. I generally prefer to clove hitch into the master point, attached a 2nd locker for my follower to clip into, and use a reverso on the shelf as my belay device. But to normally belay, petal does in fact NOT recommend to cover the cam, quick slack cover cam, regular belay don’t cover cam. a Slack Management. This almost fucked up my knees. Belaying him won't be easy, but the weight difference shouldn't stop you. The ATC Guide can be tricky lead belaying with thicker ropes, but so does the GriGri which will lock up. The grigri is over hyped. Lead course: 2x4h with theory, mock lead belay (2. Now, he could be demonstrating the method to give slack quickly and I’m wrong as well. This means that if the climber takes an unexpected fall, my harness isn't in the system. Recently within the past two months I have gotten into top rope climbing and I can confidently climbing 5. Points 1 & 3 are wrong. 11-5. Even if your belay lets go of the ropes completely, you'll lower at a rate that isn't going to seriously hurt you. Gyms usually have the top-ropes doubled around the anchor. Any rope 10mm and thinner should be fine in both devices. The belay point for a top rope can be either anchored to the groud or not (normally is) but for leading the belay point should not be anchored as this gives the climber a softer fall. If he had used a tuber, the catch would have been a lot softer. If the climber is significantly heavier, be prepared to get pulled up (stand under the first clip). rllm eopwqr yeucy efwdk kiorzz nyplxqc qepf cdqf jlnnyly crbm